Wednesday, 20 February 2013

Let My People Speak

Due to this morning's arrests the position with comments has become further complicated due to sub-judice (pronounced, sub JEW dc) rules. For some helpful guidance please see the following links:

http://www.channel4.com/producers-handbook/media-law/contempt-and-reporting-legal-proceedings/contempt-or-sub-judice-rules

http://www.out-law.com/page-9742

Please read carefully before you comment. Editing comments is horribly time consuming and if there is any doubt the comment will not be published.

If there is a media lawyer reading this and is able to assist please can you make yourself known by email.

There is however no reason why there cannot be a sensible discussion on how we got to where we are and the many repercussions to the community of the current situation. So please do not give in to those who would like to silence us and do contribute to this very important debate.

Be heard not herded.

55 comments:

VoR said...

Um... Lovely weather today...

Not anonymous said...

Doesn't the discussion also have to fit charity commission guidelines?

BLBH supporter said...

This course of events was so predictable. Why oh why did they resort to this action against Google? Why did otherwise sensible people become entranced by this course of action?

I, and others said in previous posts that going to the secular courts would trigger these circumstances. Others, of the opposite view, dismissed these statements as fantasy.

Presumably, at some point, Mrs Justice Gloster may see the dangers of allowing an application against Google, where there is no-one present to put the case for the other side. Audi alterem partem used to be important in English Law.

got no personal ISP ID said...

You are not obliged to say anything but anything you say may be used as evidence in any future proceedings .
If you say nothing your silence may be referred to in any future proceedings.

KnokkeAvenue said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
? said...

why dont you ever print my comments?
It's not fair! I dont say anything wrong.

TOR said...

There were these bad guys. God saved us from them.

Good Purim to one and all

Question Time said...

Where does this leave the BD?

Baal Koreh said...

Were those whe were allededgedly arrested bailed yet?
If not will they have a minyan for Zochoir & Megilah?
Do they have a baaal korah?
Off topic does DCGG still have a minyan,did they have one every day?

BBC said...

Now on the Beeb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21530115

Curious said...

Are those arrested still in police custody?

Bchadrei said...

Curious said...
Are those arrested still in police custody?

As of this am it seems
http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=51225

Anonymous said...

Yes, the hearings are taking place now in Hendon Magistrates Court.

A year long Purim said...

Can I remind the Kehilla of the severe dangers our children face, as highlighted by Shomrim a year ago. http://twitpic.com/8rxmu5

"Children will be pre-occupied with their costumes...they may not be conscious of the dangers the streets bring"

Great. Now our children are equipped with the seichel to stay safe. I wonder what advice Shomrim might have for adults obsessed with costumes and appearance?

BLBH supporter said...

Anonymous, do you mean:

1) an application by the Police for more time (I presume thay have until tomorrow morning anyway)

2) they have been charged and are being remanded and are making an application for bail?

Are there are any reporting restrictions?

Anonymous said...

It's a closed hearing. No members of the public are allowed in.
Unclear whether they are being charged or bail.

Curious said...

Anonymous, please keep us updated. Should the mispallelim at BLBH wait for him for mincha? Will there be a lechaim after if he gets back?

Another curious one said...

What basis is there in UK law for a hearing like this to be closed to the public?

BLBH mispallel said...

Please let us know whether to wait for mincha or not ..........

Aunty said...

BBC1 6:30 tonight

NotGabyLock said...

BLBH Mispallel - you're a riot! LOL

Parshas Zochoir said...

Any link to updated news please?
I hope that at least the other 3 will be allowed to hear Zochoir & megilah with a minyan.

Adloyada said...

Miriam Shaviv reports a relevant piece on a 54 year old who is under arrest will be running on BBC1 at 18:30. JC says police have been given a further 36 hours for questioning by Court

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/102716/police-continue-questioning-rabbi-halpern

Barnet 5-0 said...

http://www.barnetbugle.com/journal/2013/2/21/barnet-borough-commander-adrian-usher-writes-open-letter-abo.html

Yerachmiel Lopin said...

In this arid atmosphere for commenting I would like to suggest another line of discussion.

Let's get some ideas for shlach manot presents to send Mr. Chaim Halpern in his place of detention. Any ideas?

Also, any Purim costume suggestions for He Who Can Now Be Named.

BLBH supporter said...

Tickle,

When is Google's deadline up?

Anonymous said...

Hediot . .

Can we please have some leadership from our Rabbonim or Machers and arrange a NW wide Tefila or Tehillim for the Torah's and Schina's shame . . .

Kosher food supplier said...

I heard that it took several hours to get kosher food as the meals brought were LBD which the arrested felons refused to eat.

He asked for this said...

"Also, any Purim costume suggestions for He Who Can Now Be Named." How about wrapping him in an oversized towel!

? said...

Is this the end of 'Shomrim'?

Camp machanayim said...

I'm still waiting for someone to yell over a bullhorn, "Color War!"

Anonymous said...

The police have been granted another 36 hours to hold all 4. Still no news on whether they are pressing charges.
Tickle, did you receive a temporary reprieve from the high court?

Anonymous said...

Hediot . .

Ps. I refer to the young Rabonim and young askonim.

The older generation can't multi-task




wondering from afar said...

Does anyone know who exactly the other 3 are? Is that also not allowed to be said publicly for fear of damaging the court proceedings?

Anonymous said...

Oi veiz mir!

Homon Horosho said...

For those of you who missed the BBC News broadcast about RCH. You can watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_vlfwQDqRE

R BUCK said...

Maybe as Parshas Zochor and shul's are extra full for each shul to say a kapitel when they say the mi she berach for 'tzorcei tzibbur b'emunah . . .

custody food procedures said...

The inmates were given plenty of suitable kosher food
The blog saying that it was Lbd is simply inaccurate
On arrival they were offered DD's sandwiches without delay
Since then they have had plenty to eat
The families have been allowed to liaise with them and take in fresh clothing as per normal custody procedures
What is prudent is the long stay in a police cell. Police cells are not designed for periods of over 24HR's. It is rare to get extentions.

VoR said...

Yomim al yemei melech tosef?

Purim Spieler said...

Anyone supplying hamentaschen with a file?

Anonymous said...

Meuzzin said:

Hediot,-
before anyone responds to your call for prayers, check out the toichochoh from Joe Blogs (speakerscornernw11). Eichoh or Esther this year?

Realist said...

All the people joking about this situation:
Whichever side of the argument one is, this is a very sorry situation and not at all a laughing matter.
There are people locked up in a tiny cell having had all the liberties you and I take for granted, taken from them. It is extremely demeaning and depressing.
Plus, there are their families: wives, parents, sons, daughters, son's in law, daughters in law & extended family and friends, all worried sick. Countless innocents who have not slept for nights, people too sick with worry to be able to eat more than a few morsels.
This is supposed to be the happiest time in our year, and there are people who are suffering as nobody should ever have to suffer and people stand by cracking jokes.
Can we really be so heartless?
Before we crack the next joke, lets just think for a second about the plight of these people and their families (whether we think it deserved or otherwise) and how we would feel if we were in their position.
Then lets see if the joke is still as funny as it sounded initially.

mgv said...

The anonymous idiot who posted the pathetic link to the other anonymous pathetic idiot Joe Blogs.


Having lost the main plank of their argument that 'obviously nothing took place or else the police would have got involved', these blind fools now turn their attention to 'the lack of yashrus, temimus and loshon nekiyo of the bloggers'.


Their whole yiddishkeit is venehapoch hu, black is white, up is down, CH is a tsaddik and a godol.


As the old expression goes, if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.


The (equally anonymous and equally intemperate) Joe Blogs is flea ridden.

me said...

What about all the victims liberties? Not just suffering for one or two night but lifetimes

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone

Any news on the four arrested?

charvonah said...

@Realist
Everything you say is true, but why didn't the accused think of that earlier?
Had he heeded the warning of colleagues to leave last Sukkos, at least he would be abroad in a kolel in possession of his passport.
You cry about his close family. Why don't you cry for the alleged victims? Why can't they be given justice? If the allegations are true, did you know that women can feel suicidal after such an experience?
At least if he is tried and convicted, the accused might be told to do 'community service', which he is very good at.

? said...

'Here Here', Realist.

There are a bunch of very depressed people out there who are terribly unhappy with their lives. They silently rejoice at the news of hearing anything bad happening to people from their community. Whether it is people being locked up, people getting divorced, people doing badly in business etc.

You know who you are! It's you who probably caused the whole Chilul Hashem outsise 215 GG Rd. a few weeks back when the police & Hatzolah were called in (can you believe these reshoim!).

BLBH supporter said...

Realist

100% agree, it is a very sad day for the whole kehilloh. Those who joke about it will see worse yet for laughing.

But the defendants were all warned.

They were playing with fire by going to the secular courts. It wasn't Adar, when the mazal is good for law cases with goyim. it was parshas mishpotttim of all sedras, and still they went to the goyshe courts.

Joe Blogs said...

mgv -
I am sorry you feel aggrieved that my yiddishkeit is upside down, and that I am flea-ridden, intemperate and whatever else.

How exactly are you dealing with these feelings? I am dealing with mine very well!!

I did not say CH was a "tzaddik and a godol" - nor did I imply this. It is not for me to say. But if you wish to distort my post to suit your own ends, please do so. The public can read and understand my words for themselves.

mgv said...

Furthermore, "Joe", whereas the Ramo allows a man to masquerade as a woman on Purim, there's no such hetter to do so the whole year round, as you do.

Realist said...

Charvonah

You are one hundred percent right. And by the way I am an anti not a pro.

I have sympathy for everybody concerned, but funnily enough even for the person who we all agree could have prevented all this.

Latest... said...

http://chaimhalpernconspiracy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/all-four-released-without-charges.html

Joe Blogs said...

JOE BLOGS IS A WOMAN OKAY.

Sneaze AVENUE said...

I think there is a very unusual aspect of this procedure which lawyers may debate for years. The arrests related to interference with the course of justice despite the fact that the only known judicial process involved is that of the Bais Din, which is a commission of inquiry under communal auspices. Now rabbinical tribunals have standing in civil matters when an arbitration agreement is signed by two sides in a dispute. But there is no obvious reason why an independent commission be considered as a recognised judicial process. If the bais Din is not a judicial process, then payment of a gratuity to someone for not testifying is only interfering with an inquiry, which is not a crime. But if a criminal complaint has been filed by one of the victims, even if it has not been deemed credible and therefore not acted upon, such payment might be considered interfering with the course of justice. Therefore it is likely that this indicates a prior criminal complaint, which has not been deemed actionable.

Anonymous said...

Sneaze Avenue:
Why do you think that the obstruction of justice or witness intimidation which has been alleged is related to the Beis Din investigation? To the contrary, it sounds like there was a criminal investigation going on and that the police believe they are in possession of evidence that the individuals who are arrested attempted to intimidated from testfiying or otherwise discouraged from cooperation with the police. That is a very valid law for the authorities to uphold.